You've met Teresa and John, but have you met the new cast of mystics?
Meet all 12 at the Modern Mystics School!
My Favorite Tool for Inner Work: IFS and Shadow Work
with Emily Kerpelman
I’m so excited to share about my favorite tool for inner work! Both the people I work with and my own inner work has grown by leaps and bounds using Internal Family Systems (IFS) for shadow work.
Shadow work helps us examine the parts of ourselves that we would rather not look at. These are the parts of us that don’t fit into the picture of who we think we are--or who we think we should be. Today I will be joined by Internal Family Systems (IFS) practitioner and coach, Emily Kerpelman - and together we’ll share how we can use Internal Family Systems to do our own shadow work. We’ll also explore:
The 3 key “characters” you’ll meet while using IFS
What really drives our behavior
Tools to turn down your anxiety
Why some religious concepts can be counterproductive to your inner work
And a Rumi-inspired meditation practice at the end to meet all your own inner parts!
If you’re dedicated to your personal or spiritual growth, this episode is definitely for you!
00;00;07;03 - 00;00;13;25
Kelly Deutsch
Welcome to Spiritual Wanderlust, where we explore our interior life in search of the sacred. Many of us will.
00;00;13;25 - 00;00;16;03
Kelly Deutsch
Travel the whole world to find ourselves.
00;00;16;19 - 00;00;30;03
Kelly Deutsch
But here will follow those longings within to our spiritual and emotional landscapes. In each episode, we'll talk with inspiring guests, contemplative teachers, embodiment experts, neuropsychologists and mystics.
00;00;30;26 - 00;00;35;27
Kelly Deutsch
With a blend of ancient wisdom and modern science, along with a healthy dash of mischief.
00;00;36;10 - 00;00;43;14
Kelly Deutsch
Will deep dove into divine intimacy and what it means to behold. I'm your host, Kelly Deutsch.
00;00;54;12 - 00;01;19;16
Kelly Deutsch
Hi, everyone. Kelly Deutsch here. Welcome to our next episode. I'm very excited to have you all joining us today because I have with me my good friend and colleague, Emily Koppelman. And Emily is a certified personal development coach. She's an IFRS practitioner and she's also a new mom. And Emily and I both love to use this model called IFS Internal Family Systems.
00;01;19;24 - 00;01;48;23
Kelly Deutsch
Emily uses it in coaching for personal development. And I love to use it both in spiritual direction and in coaching, like executives and other people in leadership roles. But it's probably my favorite tool to use in internal work. It just has such a profound and clear way of framing your inner world that I have not found another tool like it to get quick results, to use it for permanent healing.
00;01;49;02 - 00;01;50;12
Emily Kerpelman
For spiritual growth.
00;01;51;07 - 00;02;38;03
Kelly Deutsch
Working on trauma, or just in your own day to day interactions like man. Why do I kind of freak out on my husband like that? Or Why do my kids manage to push all of my buttons? And IFRS speaks of this internal family that we have within all those various parts and voices that we have that like to chime in and sometimes take over Today we'll talk about what ifs is explain a little bit about the model and how you can use it for shadow work for your spiritual growth or whatever interior journey and you're doing yourself So Emily and I have been talking a little bit about shadow work, which is something that's kind of
00;02;38;03 - 00;02;55;12
Kelly Deutsch
a popular thing to talk about. Like Oh, I'm doing my shadow work and I'm getting into Carl Jung and doing all these cool things, which is really wonderful. But if you're anything like me, for a long time, I didn't exactly know what that meant. Or really how to do it. You know, I and if you're unfamiliar with shadow work, essentially.
00;02;56;11 - 00;02;56;26
Emily Kerpelman
What it.
00;02;56;26 - 00;03;22;10
Kelly Deutsch
Is, is recognizing that there are parts of us that are incompatible with who we think we are or who we think we should be. And so we often just shove those into our unconscious or project them upon other people. And so instead of acknowledging how I can be obnoxious, I will project that onto somebody else and be like, Oh, my gosh, that person can you believe how obnoxious they are?
00;03;22;10 - 00;03;55;23
Kelly Deutsch
You know? And so I projected onto everyone else because it's easier to hate in someone else than to hate in ourselves and to deal with those propensities that we have. So shadow work is really doing a lot of interior excavating and welcoming home all those parts of ourselves. That sometimes have some ugly sides and hopefully freeing them to turn down the volume a little bit so that maybe your hypercritical perfectionist part can really just become an amazing performer, you know, and help you do wonderful things in life.
00;03;56;19 - 00;04;25;23
Kelly Deutsch
So taming them or helping them release their full potential is a lot of what Shadow work is about. And Internal Family Systems was something created by the therapist Dick Schwartz. It's such a helpful framework for understanding how our interior world is set up. And so both Emily and I have used it extensively in coaching and spiritual direction and even just in our own personal work, unaccompanied.
00;04;25;24 - 00;04;50;02
Kelly Deutsch
And so we'd love to share with you today a little bit about what ifs is what it means to have an internal family and how we can use it to do shadow work and find that freedom that we're all looking for. So, Emily, I'd love to hear a little bit if you want to share some of your backstory around how you encountered ISIS and why it was powerful and why you like to still use it today.
00;04;50;21 - 00;05;15;09
Emily Kerpelman
Of course. So I, I started out my first journey as a client. My mother in law is a therapist and I offense and I was going through a whole overhaul basically. And my wife was a musician many, many years in Los Angeles. And just felt like there was something missing. And as I was starting to do more internal digging it was really awesome.
00;05;15;09 - 00;05;48;00
Emily Kerpelman
My mother in law was an office therapist, and she actually started to talk to me about IFRS, and it was like a light switched on in my head. There was so much that made sense about the model to me, especially when considering my own internal internal world it's it's a really compassionate model, and it's, it helps us to look at those shadows right in shadow work and bring them to our consciousness and to be able to do that safely and with love.
00;05;48;11 - 00;06;12;02
Emily Kerpelman
So really, it's a really respectful model. It's really looking at our systems and how we are structured inside and allows it to be that way if it needs to be. But then offering the hope that it doesn't have to be this way. Like I suffered from pretty severe anxiety and we have anxiety attacks driving down the freeway to my music sessions.
00;06;12;02 - 00;06;35;18
Emily Kerpelman
And it was really terrifying. And I learned that I kind of was living in this constant state of anxiety because I had a part that was on alert all the time for danger. What it what it was, what it sensed was danger. Right. And it can be a really like a fight or flight response. And I was in constant just this buzzing state.
00;06;35;18 - 00;07;04;21
Emily Kerpelman
And I didn't know that until I started doing my life's completely changed my life and turned down the volume. As you were saying, of this intensity of needing to protect myself and keep myself safe with others. And I so I started off as an ISIS client and got into a training. As soon as I got into a training, I went also to a coach training, which is where I met my dear friend Kelly.
00;07;05;01 - 00;07;44;11
Emily Kerpelman
And it really just started this internal you know, three or four years now that I've been doing this. And it was it was the beginning of this really awesome day. And structuring my understanding of myself and others and really I I've just been so curious about people even like everything that I learn, I'm more and more curious about myself and other people and I'm just yeah, I'm thrilled to be able to apply it to my own practice and to, to help people to, to communicate using IFRS.
00;07;44;11 - 00;07;54;13
Emily Kerpelman
It's like you can actually say, I have a part that is angry right now instead of saying, you jerk, you know, just coming from that part.
00;07;55;02 - 00;08;19;22
Kelly Deutsch
Yes. Yes. Especially where you were. You mentioned that you're able to acknowledge all of these parts and ifs uses that as like a technical term. You know that there are various parts inside of us, but it's also very vernacular. It's common for us to say things like that, like Oh, there's a part of me that wants to go to your party, Emily, and there's a part of me that really just wants to stay home with Netflix and stay in my sweatpants.
00;08;20;27 - 00;08;54;03
Kelly Deutsch
You know, it's just like we all have those various parts of us, and that's where it's easiest to recognize. But I think one of the most powerful parts of ISIS is that we accept them all with love. There's a welcoming, there's an acceptance, there's a gratitude for what they do for us. And that can be really challenging, especially those parts that are super anxious and giving us anxiety attacks or for people who have, you know, destructive behaviors or suicidal ideation or some of those really big, tough ones.
00;08;54;15 - 00;09;22;21
Kelly Deutsch
Like, it's really hard for me to love the part inside of me that gets overwhelmed and just floods my whole system and you know, it's it's hard to appreciate them sometimes, but when you see what their original intent is and what they're trying to help you do, it's so much easier to have gratitude and just like human beings, when they're appreciated for all their hard work, oftentimes they'll start to calm down a little bit and just like, oh, you see me thank you.
00;09;22;21 - 00;10;06;22
Kelly Deutsch
I have been working so hard. And I know for the clients that I've used this with, that that gaze of appreciation, they're like, oh, my gosh, this list changes everything. And I think it's different than a lot of traditional spiritual work sometimes, because oftentimes we're trying to root out those sinful tendencies. We might call them in traditional religious language instead of seeing like maybe maybe the sin or the difficult behavior is really just the smoke and there's fire somewhere else that there is pain somewhere in there, which leads to a difficult behavior or something that's hurting you or others.
00;10;08;00 - 00;10;24;13
Kelly Deutsch
So anyway, I just find that also helpful and non pathologizing. And I'm like, we don't have to see all these things wrong with us. Like, Oh, well, that makes a lot of sense. Why are parts of doing the things that they are doing?
00;10;25;28 - 00;11;09;03
Emily Kerpelman
And I just wanted to say, rooting something out Has that ever worked for anyone? Like, I know that it can. It can seem to be a temporary fix, right? To feel like we've rooted it out when really in effect, the term is exiling. It's we're pushing something down is what we're doing. And it doesn't really go anywhere. So there's these tendencies maybe that we don't like about ourselves or that haven't been accepted in our world or with people around us or that we believe at a young age would actually get us killed because our parents don't like it, you know, or something like that.
00;11;09;16 - 00;11;37;11
Emily Kerpelman
We push it down. And so we are like our pruning, our external appearance, but really what we're doing is pushing things down somewhere out of our consciousness so that we don't have to look at them if at all possible. But it doesn't really work in the long term. And those things we push down like, you know, referencing shadow work, those are the things that really do drive what we do day to day.
00;11;38;02 - 00;12;02;07
Emily Kerpelman
Yes. How we show up in the world, it's because of the the pain and the shame and the things that we are keeping secret. And so what you're saying about the compassion of ISIS is it's it's allowing those parts to be in the light and be surrounded by love. And it's learning how to love yourself and all of your parts, everything that makes you who you are in a new way.
00;12;02;24 - 00;12;40;11
Emily Kerpelman
And it's there's so much hope in this model and in shadow work and that's what really I think I was feeling in the beginning when I was first introduced to ISIS. And that's it's just it's like, oh, my gosh, I really am. Okay. You mean that was one of the mantras of ISIS is all parts are welcome. And even to this day, there are times when I in my own work realize that there's something inside of me that doesn't believe that still after years of work, it's incredible that just continuing to to hit back on that phrase.
00;12;40;11 - 00;12;44;09
Emily Kerpelman
It's true. No, it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;12;44;09 - 00;13;06;03
Kelly Deutsch
Absolutely. And so today we'd love to share with you a little bit about what the model is and what these parts are, which is every part has a shadow part and a light part. It has a really good intention. And then it has really the shadow is when it gets turned up a little too loud. These tendencies that we have to like.
00;13;06;04 - 00;13;33;29
Kelly Deutsch
Let's say people please, like it's a great ability to be able to get along with everyone. But if that's turned up too loud and you people please to the extent that you never speak up for what you want and you let people walk all over you, then it becomes problematic. Know? And so that's where we want to look at some of those parts, especially the ones that we shove into our unconscious and exile and leave in the shadow, because that's when you don't have consciousness.
00;13;33;29 - 00;13;59;29
Kelly Deutsch
That's when they can drive your behaviors in a very frustrating way, all of those blind spots. So we'll share with you a little bit of what the model is and hopefully be able to explain it in a way so that you can also use it for your own personal shadow work. And we'll do a short exercise meditation at the end so that you can use the model with us together.
00;14;00;12 - 00;14;26;11
Kelly Deutsch
And our plan is then to do another session where we can do a fuller demonstration and see how that all looks. So we're excited to dove in because I've I found IFC to be the most clear and concise and maybe even advanced way to do inner work, at least for me personally. And what I've seen with the people that I work with so I'm excited to share.
00;14;26;11 - 00;14;33;09
Emily Kerpelman
With you Where do parts.
00;14;33;09 - 00;14;51;20
Kelly Deutsch
Come from and what are the various parts that we have within us? How do these develop in the first place? And what does it mean to have all of these little family members running around inside? Emily, how would you answer that?
00;14;52;25 - 00;15;18;04
Emily Kerpelman
Gosh, there's so many ways to answer that. But the way that I'll start is when we're born, we are basically structured the way we're supposed to be. We have what which something we'll get into a little bit, I think toward the end. But we are born with the self, which is more like a seed of awareness. And then there are parts that we're born with.
00;15;19;08 - 00;15;47;08
Emily Kerpelman
These parts are very innocent that are just for kids, you know, and as we grow, we start to learn that certain parts of us aren't welcome or that certain parts start. They carry certain beliefs about what it means to be this way, right? Like if I'm loud in class, that's bad. And so being loud, we learn I can't do that.
00;15;47;08 - 00;16;29;09
Emily Kerpelman
I can't be loud. And so the part that wants to be loud is exiled and put away somewhere. And so the term exile represents those parts of us that carry the shame, that carry the pain of things that we learned usually when we were very young, that were bad that meant we were like just these beliefs, maybe that you were wordless or that we are alone or that we can't be connected with or, you know, can't be these things of us that we really don't want to be seen by others because it could be dangerous in a lot of times it's even we don't want to be able to we don't want to see them because
00;16;29;19 - 00;16;56;17
Emily Kerpelman
if that feels dangerous and so they get pushed down somewhere in a lot of times it's very developed through trauma yeah. Just or just being human, being rejected, being teased. A lot of times these parts are steeped in shame. So the feelings are so, so big that our system, our internal system hides in the way in exile with them.
00;16;57;11 - 00;17;06;27
Emily Kerpelman
And so that's at the core of a lot of what our what our system is build off of. That's what's at the center of the unconscious. Yeah.
00;17;07;14 - 00;17;30;22
Kelly Deutsch
Yeah. And those exiles, they usually their pain and their shame feel so big, we don't want to feel them. So as you mentioned, our system develops other parts to help keep them and to manage them, like, okay, we got to make sure that you stay in exile because I can't walk around feeling like I'm not enough all the time, or I can't walk around feeling like I'm going to be rejected by everyone all the time.
00;17;30;22 - 00;17;53;19
Kelly Deutsch
So I'm going to manage Kelly's life or Emily's life or whoever you are and we have all of these manager parts that do a lot of really good things as well because they manage a lot of our day to day life. But they manage our schedules, they manage our reputation, our self-esteem, our pain, all of those things. They are just constantly trying to manage and keep under wraps.
00;17;53;19 - 00;18;22;16
Kelly Deutsch
And so you know, there are a lot of managers that many of us share in common. The we have most of us have an inner critic manager. We have a people pleaser manager, or we have a perfectionist manager, a lazy part of performer. You know, there's these all these parts that are within us that are trying to help us not feel this pain and to just get through our daily life, you know, do what we need to do in work or family life.
00;18;24;08 - 00;18;54;29
Kelly Deutsch
So these managers have these beliefs that like the perfectionist part, if everything is perfect, then I don't have to feel inadequate and I'm not enough. Or if I please everyone and everyone around me is happy, I don't have to feel the pain of rejection. Or if I can just relax and binge watch Netflix every evening, I don't have to feel all those difficult, painful feelings of loneliness or abandonment or whatever is really underneath all of those things.
00;18;55;13 - 00;19;17;03
Kelly Deutsch
So managers help us a lot with coping mechanisms that can be both really positive. Like, again, we said the perfectionist can also help us perform well. The the lazy parts, which can sometimes just binge watch Netflix for hours on end, can also really just help us unwind at the end of the day. It just depends on how loud that volume is turned up on them.
00;19;19;02 - 00;19;43;29
Kelly Deutsch
But unfortunately, sometimes, despite all their efforts, these managers either get tired or just, yeah, they try everything, but still they're unable to keep those exiles in exile and those really painful feelings get triggered. And that's when you feel anxious or you have a panic attack or you realize that I feel like I'm not good enough. And that's when the last parts sometimes come up.
00;19;44;25 - 00;20;22;27
Emily Kerpelman
Yeah. So so yeah, like you said, managers they have these really brilliant strategies. A lot of the time they work like that. That perfectionist probably keeps us in in good graces with, work with, with people that we're around day to day because we're doing things right. But when we, when when those parts fail their jobs and those exiles, you know, rush up and completely take over the feelings that we have are just to those parts unacceptable because these parts protect us.
00;20;22;27 - 00;20;44;08
Emily Kerpelman
Managers are protectors. And this second type of of protector is called a firefighter. So they come in, they're literally there to douse the flames. They are a last resort. Nothing else is working. So they come in and a lot of times, managers and firefighters do not see eye to eye because they they managers kind of keep you in your life.
00;20;44;23 - 00;21;14;07
Emily Kerpelman
They keep you kind of going from thing to thing. Functioning and society and firefighters, it doesn't matter. They're coming in. They're going to put out that flame. However they think it's necessary and they can be very extreme. So like addictions, alcoholism, it can be something that's really big. It can be, you know, suicidal ideation. It can be cutting, it can be anything that offers relief and it can be extreme, but it can also be like a complete shutdown.
00;21;15;00 - 00;21;41;28
Emily Kerpelman
So, you know, I know in my own life when I have been super flooded by an exile, there is a shutdown that happens. Just this feeling of I don't care anymore. I'm not like not connecting with anyone. I am a one person island and it feels there's just a numbness that comes and that is a firefighter and they can be present in more subtle ways, even though they're kind of like they're acting to put out the flames.
00;21;41;28 - 00;22;01;23
Emily Kerpelman
But it can it really just can be a Netflix situation. Also where you are just completely disconnecting and just absorbing television instead of being in day to day life. But yeah, they're like the fire fighters come in to douse the flames.
00;22;01;27 - 00;22;31;21
Kelly Deutsch
And that made me think of we've Emily and I have done sessions together, and I have a part that is a firefighter that is a very amiable firefighter. If you will. And I've I've named him Sergeant Glazer because he kind of comes in and just like kind of glares in my face so that I can't see anything behind it, anything else that I'm trying to access, any earlier parts of me, any pain, any anything else.
00;22;32;16 - 00;22;58;27
Kelly Deutsch
But he's he's just kind of like this laconic sergeant who's just like, all right, time to move along. Nothing. Nothing to see here, you know? And it just but I feel nothing this when when Sergeant Glazer comes in and, you know, and I'm a very visual person, so my my parts tend to show up with kind of characters that I can see inside of me, which I find kind of interesting.
00;22;59;19 - 00;23;00;14
Emily Kerpelman
Also, really.
00;23;00;22 - 00;23;34;29
Kelly Deutsch
And sometimes we we notice our part simply as a bodily sensation. And, you know, like a attention in my in my abdomen or I feel kind of an emptiness in my chest or my feel or have a sensation of a color or an emotion or, you know, there's many ways that we feel them just to give moving back the example of a firefighter like sometimes we don't have the extreme firefighters of, you know, like I have some really intense or destructive addictions, but even.
00;23;34;29 - 00;23;36;04
Emily Kerpelman
Those are.
00;23;36;04 - 00;23;50;21
Kelly Deutsch
Trying to do something good for your system. Like they're trying to prevent you from feeling this overwhelming pain. And so they're they're trying some other Last-Ditch effort, which, again, as Emily said, your managers aren't often a fan of. They're like.
00;23;50;21 - 00;23;52;11
Emily Kerpelman
What are you doing? Like.
00;23;52;21 - 00;23;59;20
Kelly Deutsch
This is not helpful. But again, the firefighters don't care. They're just trying to put out the fire in any way that they know how.
00;24;01;22 - 00;24;17;03
Kelly Deutsch
And so, again, that's that's where you can see the shadow and the light of of each of each part inside of us. They all have a positive intent. But sometimes the way that they go about achieving that is no longer useful.
00;24;18;29 - 00;24;47;29
Emily Kerpelman
Right. And just again, touching on on and doing this work, I time and time again, I am amazed at how complex our systems can be and how brilliant they are. Like you have survived this long because of your parts. Like they have gotten you through so much life and going into session with clients, like having an appreciation for their parts is paramount.
00;24;47;29 - 00;25;09;12
Emily Kerpelman
But that is so important because and having respect for them when it's genuine, you know, because I do my own work, I was able to do that. But then when I'm looking at someone else's system as a practitioner, it's like, wow, your part does that for you? Like it's you know, I have a part that develops from childhood that I call the mind reader.
00;25;09;12 - 00;25;36;20
Emily Kerpelman
And it's incredible what this part can detect. But again, like what the parts, the parts that are around that and what they do in response to what I discover about others can be kind of damaging for me. What is in my past is led to anxiety, but just like being able to slow down and really look at each of these parts, even the ones that are cutting someone right?
00;25;36;20 - 00;25;50;15
Emily Kerpelman
Like that is so extreme there is there is such value and what they're trying to achieve for you as a person. And yeah, I'm just amazed by parts yeah.
00;25;50;29 - 00;26;14;01
Kelly Deutsch
Yeah. So there's really I like to say that there are three goals of, of doing your inner work, whether you call it shadow work or something else. Really. First of all, I would say it's freeing these parts to respond to the present moment. I, I once heard someone say that there's no such thing as overy acting. We're just reacting to things that are outside the present moment.
00;26;14;27 - 00;26;41;25
Kelly Deutsch
That's what it means when we're triggered, right? We're responding. If Emily says like, I don't like the way your hair looks, you know, I might instead of saying I feel whatever, like you don't have to look at it every day, you know, I'm laughing it off. I might be I might be triggered by that because maybe when I got a perm when I was in kindergarten, the entire class made fun of me and I felt such shame over that.
00;26;41;25 - 00;27;06;09
Kelly Deutsch
And so instead, I feel all of a sudden shame or kind of, like, panicky. I need to get out of here or whatever, you know, it's the same thing that happens when you're at work and your boss says something or even looks at you in a way that somehow your interior remembers that from childhood or from somewhere else in life, you might not even know why you have a reaction that extreme.
00;27;06;18 - 00;27;48;27
Kelly Deutsch
But we get yanked back to the past like your body remembers. If you haven't read the book, go read the Body Keeps the score by Bessel van der so good how all of these things get entrenched in our nervous system, in our muscles, and how even if our conscious minds don't remember, our bodies do. And so being able to free all of these parts that often get stuck in earlier experiences and ways of adapting because maybe this part was five years old and got made fun of in kindergarten, and the only way that it knew how to cope was to withdraw and hide, like make myself invisible or whatever it was.
00;27;48;27 - 00;28;16;01
Kelly Deutsch
And, and oftentimes that same part still functions today as if we're five and I don't know how to stand up for myself like an adult. And so instead I just make myself invisible or, you know, whatever those parts do were things that they knew how to do at that stage in life and often don't recognize that we're mature adults that have a self that is infinitely compassionate and curious and confident and whole.
00;28;16;25 - 00;28;28;00
Kelly Deutsch
That's, that's that true. Self that the mystics talk about. That's that center point where we are one with the divine, and that's the place where healing comes from.
00;28;29;12 - 00;28;55;01
Emily Kerpelman
You know, and you were talking about the self. So leading with true self is another goal of DFS. So that's like, you know, this, this what I had said earlier is it's a state of awareness, but it's also just you have infinite resources when you're in this space. And I just want to emphasize the fact that it is it parts are bad and self is good.
00;28;56;00 - 00;29;40;29
Emily Kerpelman
It's when you can have harmony in your system, have space for everyone that's there, including self, and come from this place of healing, of compassion, of centeredness, of stability. And when you're engaging with your parts, there's just there's infinite possibilities and they're all good. And you can be present in your life and hear from your parts like let's say there's a part that gets angry you can hear from that part because if it's angry, it's for a reason and you can honor it by speaking for it instead of us getting completely enmeshed in all of these parts and systems that have established to protect us.
00;29;41;07 - 00;30;21;07
Emily Kerpelman
It turns out there really isn't a need for that. When self is present and it's such a relief and you know you're in self, there's what I guess calls the eight C's and I have them over here because I always forget them. But there's if you find yourself in a state of clarity, compassion, if you're feeling courageous, confident, creative, calm or connected, any of those things is an indication that you've got some self energy on board.
00;30;21;21 - 00;30;45;23
Emily Kerpelman
The ones that I find are the easiest to do to connect with self or to know if self is present. Ah, curiosity and compassion. If you are feeling compassion for the parts of you that are present, then you've got self on board and there's some healing possible. Or if you're curious to know more curiosity is a great way, especially as a practitioner.
00;30;45;27 - 00;31;04;08
Emily Kerpelman
And I think, Kelly, you mentioned that a lot of your audience work with people as healers, having curiosity about another human being is incredible and encouraging that curiosity in them as well is like it's it can do really good things and that's a quality of self with a capital S.
00;31;05;03 - 00;31;36;15
Kelly Deutsch
And being able to access, as you said, that that curiosity in your own self is what allows for our own inner healing because what is so common for most of us is that we'll look at some difficult part of us, like the part of me that, well, I'll take the sergeant glare, for example, that I can just get really frustrated with because I'm in a session, a set aside time, I'm paying for whatever coaching or therapy and we're trying to access this exile or part of me.
00;31;36;15 - 00;31;55;12
Kelly Deutsch
And all of a sudden Sergeant Glare comes in and just like won't let me go any further. And there's another part that pops up and gets frustrated with Sergeant Glare, like, you're blocking my way, dude, you know, or whatever difficult behavior it is, whether it's anxiety or other things that you don't like about yourself or how your interior works.
00;31;55;27 - 00;32;14;24
Kelly Deutsch
And usually we have another part, whether it's an inner critic or a judgmental part or some other part that has such hatred and frustration. But to recognize that that's a part, too, that's not yourself. That's another part usually that recognition is like.
00;32;15;22 - 00;32;18;00
Emily Kerpelman
Oh, so I can.
00;32;18;09 - 00;32;45;14
Kelly Deutsch
Okay, so this part is also just trying to help me. Maybe I need to work with this judgment part, this inner critic part that is so frustrated with these other ones instead of constantly having that negative self-talk, which is just another part. But that's, that's what allows us to walk closer to our feelings and being whole. If so, if we said there's three goals and if's, one is to free your parts to respond to the present.
00;32;46;01 - 00;33;32;05
Kelly Deutsch
Second is to be able to lead with your true self, that core of who you are. And the third is just to be whole and allow all again, welcome all of the parts, which is really the goal of all spiritual work. It's ego transformation. So parts, another word for parts in psychology world is just ego states. So your ego has all of these different ways of adapting to the world and learning to cope and navigate people's expectations and all of those different things happening in life and in just existential, liminal city, all the uncertainty that exists, there's so much there that our ego has to figure out how to help us with.
00;33;32;05 - 00;33;53;12
Kelly Deutsch
You know, just like your anxious part, that was kind of hypervigilant. Like, Am I safe and my safe and my safe? And that's how our bodies were built, right? It's like our brains are checking multiple times a second. My safe, my safe and my safer you safe. Is this environment safe and allowing our parts to calm down because hey self is present, we are okay and we.
00;33;53;12 - 00;33;54;14
Emily Kerpelman
Are going to be okay.
00;33;55;02 - 00;34;16;10
Kelly Deutsch
And we can use all of these parts, free them to find their their light side. What is their positive intent so that all of these parts can be called upon? I think you use the word like getting them in harmony. You know, I like to think of it like an orchestra, like, okay, I'm not I'm not exiling any of these parts.
00;34;16;10 - 00;34;45;06
Kelly Deutsch
I'm not getting rid of my perfectionist or my inner critic. I'm just allowing it to play the part that it needs to play in this orchestra and call upon it. Self would be the conductor, like calling upon the different parts when they're needed in your life so that they all work in harmony together instead of one like kick in over the conductor and be like, I'm in charge now, okay, here's what's going to happen, which is often what happens in our life instead of having that lovely, harmonious orchestra all working together.
00;34;46;18 - 00;35;18;18
Emily Kerpelman
Yeah. And it's, you know, parts don't know the good news yet that they can be in the orchestra, that they don't have to be in the lead until we start doing this work and discover what it feels like to be and self and to have that relationship with what is inside of us that you actually do have a true leader in the system that these like five year old and ten year old parts don't actually have to be in the conductor's chair, play the instrument they were meant, or they just don't know that that's possible yet.
00;35;19;02 - 00;35;44;09
Emily Kerpelman
Like that, creating that hope for someone and showing them that it's true. It's always true. Every person has a self. It doesn't matter what you've suffered. How many systems have developed around trauma, the self is there. You have everything you need inside of you. Every client you work with has what they need inside of them to do the healing that is, in my experience, permanent.
00;35;44;18 - 00;36;08;11
Emily Kerpelman
Like what other model can say that? Like I have permanent change that I have experienced through my healing. And it isn't because of anything that I found in the outside world. You know, I was guided to find the healing inside of myself. And there's something so incredible about that that you have it all inside of you. You have.
00;36;09;03 - 00;36;09;18
Emily Kerpelman
Yeah.
00;36;09;19 - 00;36;29;06
Kelly Deutsch
And and I love for those of you who are walking down spiritual paths, that's that's where God dwells. That's where the divine is. And I love the mystic John of the Cross. He would say that God is the center of our souls. And the word that he used in Spanish was not Dios a star. He said Dios es el Centro.
00;36;29;20 - 00;36;52;07
Kelly Deutsch
Meaning, like he's not he's not just located there, but he is that soul's deepest center, you know? And so being able to recognize that I have that profound source of of love, compassion, courage, connectedness, curiosity, all of those things always dwell within me just by right of being a human person.
00;36;55;06 - 00;36;57;09
Emily Kerpelman
So cool. Yeah. Yeah.
00;36;57;09 - 00;37;15;02
Kelly Deutsch
So so we have all of these parts, right? We have, first of all of ourself. Then we have these other parts that are developed, especially through childhood, the exiles that hold all of our pain and shame, and then the managers who are like you. I don't want you to have to feel that. So I'm going to help you manage your life and your schedule and everything else.
00;37;15;29 - 00;37;23;28
Kelly Deutsch
And then the firefighters who sometimes step in when things get too extreme for them. And we're like, we got to shut all this down. Let's, let's numb out in some sort of way.
00;37;26;12 - 00;37;32;25
Kelly Deutsch
And now all of this sounds really interesting, but how do you actually use this in your day to day life?
00;37;35;13 - 00;38;02;12
Kelly Deutsch
Emily, I'm wondering if we talked before about the Rumi poem, which I know some people on here are familiar with and might have even thought of as we were saying, like, you need to welcome all parts of yourself. And there's a lovely meditation that Emily has shared with me that starts with this Rumi poem and allows you to walk through like an IFC exercise that allows you to recognize your inner parts.
00;38;02;12 - 00;38;14;17
Kelly Deutsch
And I'm wondering if now would be a good time to invite all of our listeners to try this exercise with us so you can feel for yourselves what it's like to recognize the different parts that are within us.
00;38;16;11 - 00;38;42;27
Emily Kerpelman
Awesome. Yes. So I just turn to the page. So I think what I'll end up doing, I'm going to read this this, this, this poem by Rumi. And then I was going to just read you guys in either a meditation or an exercise, whatever, however you want to apply this however your feeling thing in the moment, I invite you to close your eyes and really see what is present for you and really pay attention to your body and your mind.
00;38;43;16 - 00;39;23;12
Emily Kerpelman
And there is the option that if you wanted to actually draw this out, that's it can be very helpful as well, just depending on how you are. But what I'll do now is just invite you all to close your eyes. If it feels great, get settled in your seat or if you're lying down it really just taking a second to tune into your body to be taking a couple of deep breaths personally, I'm noting that I have a bit of like more and more information than normal in my body.
00;39;23;12 - 00;39;52;07
Emily Kerpelman
Like there's my legs and arms. Want to jump a that just because we're filming this and it's it's a different way of being. And so I'm noticing that just seeing what you notice in a couple of deep breaths as you're doing that, I'm going to read you the guest house I'm just noticing how it lands for you.
00;39;56;04 - 00;40;34;28
Emily Kerpelman
This being human is a guest house every morning and new arrival, the joy depression and meanness. Some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor welcome and entertain them all, even if they are a crowd of surgeons who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight.
00;40;36;10 - 00;41;19;06
Emily Kerpelman
The dark side, the shame, the malice. Meet them at the door laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whatever comes because. Because each has been sent as a guide from beyond just letting the sense of that settle into your body with whatever you detected. Before I started reading that poem, and it is welcome here and if you can't sense that, it is welcome here.
00;41;20;20 - 00;41;26;06
Emily Kerpelman
Notice who's blocking you who else is at your table right now?
00;41;30;23 - 00;41;37;21
Emily Kerpelman
Maybe it's a phrase in your mind that it's speaking and that's how you notice it's here.
00;41;40;11 - 00;41;44;03
Emily Kerpelman
Maybe it's a attention in your jaw or your shoulders.
00;41;49;24 - 00;41;54;00
Emily Kerpelman
Just walking, welcoming any part that's here to sit at the table with you.
00;41;56;19 - 00;42;04;28
Emily Kerpelman
If it feels right. Taking a seat at the head seeing if these parts can separate from you.
00;42;08;20 - 00;42;10;11
Emily Kerpelman
To give you a view of who they are.
00;42;15;25 - 00;42;20;03
Emily Kerpelman
Maybe asking them what they're trying to accomplish for you.
00;42;23;07 - 00;42;24;23
Emily Kerpelman
How do they protect you?
00;42;30;10 - 00;42;32;29
Emily Kerpelman
How important is their job?
00;42;38;16 - 00;42;42;25
Emily Kerpelman
What would happen if they weren't doing that job for you?
00;42;48;08 - 00;43;30;09
Emily Kerpelman
And just see what comes in response next to seeing if they notice you listening to them. Notice that you are available to listen, maybe for the first time that you are inviting them in that you are not afraid if there is fear, welcome them to the table.
00;43;32;29 - 00;43;34;26
Emily Kerpelman
See if there's anything they need you to know.
00;43;41;07 - 00;44;08;21
Emily Kerpelman
And asking what would happen if you weren't afraid maybe just taking a moment to notice everyone who is shown up to your table today and remembering all of these parts really want the best for you.
00;44;13;05 - 00;44;15;25
Emily Kerpelman
They're doing everything in their power to protect you.
00;44;20;02 - 00;44;51;14
Emily Kerpelman
And if you can expressing some gratitude for them, everything they've done for you up to this point in their own way, seeing if they can receive it from you if it feels right. Just letting these parts know that you will be back to spend more time with them to better understand them.
00;44;53;22 - 00;45;25;14
Emily Kerpelman
If it feels right, expressing the curiosity you feel about them, when it feels right, just slowly coming back to your body, into the room you're in. Taking a moment to wiggle those toes and fingers extending your breath just a bit slowly open your eyes.
00;45;44;10 - 00;46;14;06
Kelly Deutsch
This is a nice exercise to be able to use. I find whenever I mean at any time, but especially when you feel like your thoughts are spinning to stop and just say, Okay, who is all in here and see who's at the table? Who's throwing a fit There might be one part. You might have an intellectual part that is like, Okay, it doesn't make sense to go this direction.
00;46;14;19 - 00;46;30;14
Kelly Deutsch
You might have another part that's like, well, it doesn't matter because this person's going to be mad with us and we can't have that person mad at you and all the different thoughts. And to be able to write them out, there is something so powerful about that. I think, gosh, I'm trying to remember this study I once read.
00;46;30;14 - 00;47;09;18
Kelly Deutsch
It was something like, if you spend 15, 20 to 20 minutes a day journaling out your thoughts, especially I think it was talking around a traumatic experience that the traumatic symptoms like PTSD type symptoms were dramatically decreased over. I think it was only five days. It was incredible. Like, but just being able to write out some of those things, like what's all this insanity so that you don't have to keep flying around in your mind or that hamster wheel that continues to spin with these polarized parts that are all saying different things.
00;47;10;03 - 00;47;35;05
Kelly Deutsch
You can write them down, whether it's around a table or just writing out what are they afraid of? Like, what are my parts? What is this one part freaking out about? Or What is this one part super annoyed with this person and can't get over how much she gets under my skin or whatever those things are. To take the time and write out however ridiculous it sounds, it's going to sound ridiculous.
00;47;35;05 - 00;47;59;19
Kelly Deutsch
You're going to have another part that shows up and is like, That's so ridiculous. You sound so juvenile. I can't believe how immature you are. And to say like, Okay, I'll get to you in a second. Like, I'll write out all of your thoughts as well. Right now I just need to do one part of the time what these parts are telling me and often when you get them on paper, it's a little bit easier for self to step in and have some compassion and say, Wow, yeah.
00;47;59;20 - 00;48;00;15
Emily Kerpelman
You look like you're.
00;48;01;04 - 00;48;24;09
Kelly Deutsch
Really wound up about this. You know, it looks like you're really afraid of offending her. Yeah. Wow. It looks like you intellectual part are trying to make sense of all of this, and it's hard to make sense of human emotion. Sometimes things that don't have a right answer yeah. So I find I have this can be so hugely helpful.
00;48;24;16 - 00;48;45;28
Kelly Deutsch
My my favorite book on this, I don't know if you have a favorite book, but my, the one that I recommend to everybody is the Self Therapy by J Early. I love this one and is yeah. The one that I recommend to all of my spiritual directors who are interested in this kind of work. It's a really helpful walkthrough and some good exercises that follow it as well.
00;48;46;20 - 00;49;09;16
Kelly Deutsch
If you're wanting to do some of this shadow work and for your ego, you know, it's again all these ego states that need transformation because your ego is not going away, like your parts aren't going away. It's just finding a way to free them so that they're constantly tripping us up and driving our behavior without us realizing it.
00;49;12;23 - 00;49;15;28
Kelly Deutsch
Yeah, I think that's the hardest part is when we were like, Why.
00;49;15;28 - 00;49;16;26
Emily Kerpelman
Did I do that?
00;49;18;10 - 00;49;41;29
Kelly Deutsch
Why didn't I stand up for myself? You know, when so-and-so was talking over me at work, you know, I mean, how many times? I mean, living in the corporate world, in the Midwest, especially, where it's dominated by white male baby boomers, and how many times I get interrupted as a young woman, even if I was like had a seat at the table and sometimes, you know, I'd be like, excuse me, can I finish, please?
00;49;42;07 - 00;49;59;11
Kelly Deutsch
But so many times I didn't. And afterwards, a part of me would beat myself up like we are under, you know, it's like, oh, well, because I have another part that's been conditioned to just like, okay, well, it's not nice for you to interrupt. Even if they interrupted you just let them speak and people please and, you know, whatever.
00;49;59;24 - 00;50;02;00
Kelly Deutsch
But, you know, being able to work through those things like that.
00;50;02;11 - 00;50;32;18
Emily Kerpelman
Where I knew that other parts and I'm curious, like how different of an experience that was for you and just in that example to just be living it, right, that this is like those steps that you discuss just living them. Like I didn't speak up and you're beating yourself up. And that was just who Kelly was versus bringing that into your awareness from the dark to the light and maybe having a better understanding of the motivation.
00;50;32;21 - 00;51;01;18
Emily Kerpelman
Right. Like what you just said, that this is a part that was conditioned and probably because there's there's the I'm going to assume here that there is a real possibility of shame. There's risk in speaking up in front of grown up men. Right. And of course, in our society, that's going to exist. But having an understanding and the compassion, curiosity about those parts that behave in that moment how that changes the experience.
00;51;02;07 - 00;51;23;16
Emily Kerpelman
Right. Because then it's like that the beating up doesn't actually happen. That is so directly to a person when they're able to have distance from that part. So, like, there is a part that wants to beat me up right now because it wants me to be fill in the blank so just having distance, what it what a different experience life can be.
00;51;24;00 - 00;51;25;09
Emily Kerpelman
Hmm. Yeah.
00;51;25;09 - 00;51;49;21
Kelly Deutsch
So much so. And yeah, instead of the self shame and blame, it's like, oh, okay, here's what was going on in there. And there can be just compassion and acceptance and, and healing so that next time I can acknowledge those parts. You know, if I get spoken over again at a corporate board meeting or something like that, that this is probably going to happen again.
00;51;50;06 - 00;52;04;07
Kelly Deutsch
I'm going to have a part that is just wanting to be patient and let the other person finish, but I can prepare my other part that wants to stand up, you know, and straighten my spine a little bit and say, Excuse me, can I please finish what I was saying?
00;52;05;25 - 00;52;06;05
Emily Kerpelman
Right.
00;52;06;22 - 00;52;18;15
Kelly Deutsch
You know, or whatever it is but it is so powerful to be able to have just this framework to work through it all instead of just getting lost in all of it and frustrated with ourselves.
00;52;21;02 - 00;52;25;02
Emily Kerpelman
Yeah, absolutely. It's a great example. Yeah.
00;52;25;17 - 00;52;34;15
Kelly Deutsch
Are there any final examples that you would like to share or other connections that have been really helpful for you in this work?
00;52;38;10 - 00;52;59;28
Emily Kerpelman
Well, in asking that, it's interesting, I had a blank part show up if anyone else had this experience before. Well, where I'm sure there's thousands of examples I could reference from my own life but I have a part of me that goes completely blank, so that's exciting.
00;53;00;02 - 00;53;00;29
Kelly Deutsch
That's an example.
00;53;01;25 - 00;53;22;26
Emily Kerpelman
Yeah, yeah, it's an example. And you know, what's interesting is in the past, if this would have happened in a conversation that's being filmed that is going to be shared with an audience in the hopes that it will offer some information and some enlightenment to somebody, to have a part that shows up that is just blank was unacceptable.
00;53;23;15 - 00;53;43;19
Emily Kerpelman
That is not okay, especially if I'm coming into the conversation as a person that has some of the knowledge to share that that would have triggered so many shame parts for me to be like, Oh my God, I'm, I'm such an idiot. Or They're going to think, I don't know what I'm talking about, like imposter parts I can hear them in the back in the background.
00;53;44;14 - 00;54;05;12
Emily Kerpelman
I'm not taken over by them right now. I'm I can acknowledge they're there. I can acknowledge that this part that showed up that was blank, was feeling some pressure, like come up with something and then being able to say, well, you are something like this. You know, you're a part of me and not seem to not get swept up in.
00;54;05;12 - 00;54;33;01
Emily Kerpelman
It is so amazing. I just. Yeah, so it's in it's in moment to moment sometimes like this work is not perfect. If you're humans, you're going to get swept up in pain. You are going to get triggered by people in your lives. There is no way around. It was awesome about ISIS is a lot of the time we can have we have the tools necessary to not get swept up every time.
00;54;33;08 - 00;54;33;23
Kelly Deutsch
Yes.
00;54;34;00 - 00;55;01;00
Emily Kerpelman
And when you do get swept up, it's an opportunity for learning. Even though it is so painful, it's giving you a new window to see yourself through like what of value. And, you know, another quick example I for the last couple of weeks have been completely taken over by shame because of something that happened in a workshop that I felt like I wasn't able to be a support to.
00;55;01;00 - 00;55;22;01
Emily Kerpelman
One of the people that was learning from imposter syndrome got triggered. And also some parts of me that are from my childhood that are more codependent I feel like I'm supposed to I'm responsible for someone else's feelings. And I spent two weeks completely wrapped up in the shame. I had a firefighter come in and say, you know what, I don't need anyone.
00;55;22;17 - 00;55;44;24
Emily Kerpelman
I don't feel connected to anybody. I'm fine. Just complete disconnection. And it was a numbness and it actually felt really good. And so as the has going through the process, I can see, God, it feels good. Thank you, firefighter. I'm so glad to be numb right now because that pain was intense and I was feeling shameful about letting someone down and what that means about me.
00;55;46;29 - 00;56;26;13
Emily Kerpelman
And have done some extraordinary work as a result. And just, you know, being human is and does not like being human means having pain. And it is such a teacher and it sucks but um, yeah, I finally, you know, multiple sessions. So just to give people an example of what it is to be human and doing this work multiple sessions with the shame finally had one on Sunday where there was oh like a lightbulb went off.
00;56;27;04 - 00;56;50;09
Emily Kerpelman
There was this piece that I was missing completely that just fell into place and how earth shattering that can feel and then the world is still moving, you know, and that is, that is the power of my office and this work and having these tools is you can experience the same pain with hope and with a different perspective.
00;56;50;18 - 00;56;53;17
Emily Kerpelman
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.
00;56;53;20 - 00;57;06;26
Kelly Deutsch
Yeah. And I love even just as you shared that the the demonstration for us of how you were able to separate yourself from these other parts, like you could see that they were in the background and they're like.
00;57;07;06 - 00;57;08;00
Emily Kerpelman
But maybe you're.
00;57;08;00 - 00;57;25;01
Kelly Deutsch
An imposter, and you're like, yep, I see you back there. Like, but I don't have to I don't effect calls it not being blended from those parts, you know, like, I don't have to be blended and let that imposter blending would essentially be that image sort of shared of, like, kicking over the conductor and being like, I'm in charge here.
00;57;25;13 - 00;57;45;10
Kelly Deutsch
This is what we're all going to feel right now. You know? So you don't have to allow that imposter syndrome to come in and conduct the entire orchestra and take over and flood you with those feelings. You can see it there in the orchestra pit. Yep. I see you down there and I see really want to take charge right now, but I've got this like, this is okay.
00;57;45;10 - 00;58;00;03
Kelly Deutsch
We're okay. Actually, we're safe and that's all self. That's, that's self being the conductor, being able to help those other parts so that they don't have to feel triggered and they can continue playing the parts that they play in the orchestra.
00;58;00;27 - 00;58;28;14
Emily Kerpelman
Exactly. And maybe it's just an awareness that I've got this, even though in your body you may not feel it at the moment because a part is completely taken over and it's like you're shaking with it, but there's a, there's, there's self awareness. The, if the awareness can be way back here somewhere saying just write it out, I've got you, you know, and knowing that this is the difference if it isn't forever, absolutely.
00;58;28;17 - 00;58;43;00
Kelly Deutsch
That's so powerful. We are not always able to have distance from those reactions or to not be triggered or to have these parts flood us with their emotion, but to be able to accept even that while you're there to have that self be like.
00;58;43;00 - 00;58;43;18
Emily Kerpelman
Hey, you know what.
00;58;43;22 - 00;59;01;14
Kelly Deutsch
Kind of be okay. Like you're feeling this way now I have to do that all the time with like some health issues that I have. Oh, man. Random, mysterious things that sometimes pop up. And I just have to say, like, this is just today. This is just how I'm feeling right now, and it won't be forever.
00;59;02;08 - 00;59;27;22
Emily Kerpelman
I'm going to be okay. Wow. So much patience that comes in there, especially with something like physical pain. When you said that, like, I had a twinge in here just how challenging that can be. And I have as even has a lens into that. But the books that deal with physical pain and parts that exist there, and it's very beautiful.
00;59;27;24 - 00;59;28;12
Emily Kerpelman
Beautiful work.
00;59;28;21 - 00;59;59;07
Kelly Deutsch
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And I look forward to sharing a fuller demonstration with everyone. So tune in next week and we'll show you what this looks like to actually walk through something, start to finish so that you can do some of your own internal work. That's one of the beautiful things about IFRS. In my that book I showed you is called Self Therapy because you you really can get in touch with yourself by yourself, like you don't absolutely need somebody to hold your hand.
00;59;59;07 - 01;00;30;15
Kelly Deutsch
It's helpful. I mean, both Emily and I have both given and received that and found, you know, personally, I found that to be hugely helpful to have somebody kind of walk me through it. And oftentimes after you have somebody hold your hands a handful of times, it becomes much easier to do it on your own, you know, to work with your parts and journal or do your own exercises so that you can free up these things, these parts that you've shoved into the shadow so that they can all find that wholeness and freedom transformation that we're all looking for.
01;00;31;27 - 01;00;33;09
Emily Kerpelman
Yes. There is hope.
01;00;33;20 - 01;00;53;12
Kelly Deutsch
Indeed. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for joining me today, Emily. I appreciate you sharing all of your your wisdom and your vulnerability and your parts. And there is a lot of wisdom just in vulnerability. And I think that's a big part of what we're trying to share in our series. There's something beautiful to be gained when we risk being human.
01;00;54;28 - 01;00;57;22
Emily Kerpelman
Amen. Thanks for having me, Kelly. This is wonderful.
01;00;57;27 - 01;00;59;17
Kelly Deutsch
Yeah, absolutely. And a joy.
Tags :
Personal development
Spiritual direction
Executives
Leadership roles
Internal work
Trauma
Initiation
Crisis
Shadow work
Spiritual growth
Internal Family Systems (IFS)
Exiles
Managers
Firefighters
Self-awareness
Inner world
Parts of self
Exile, Manager, Firefighter model
Emotional pain